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world , The Old World Is Dead: You Have Been Conditioned to Know it Too , #World #Dead #Conditioned
, warhammer
Support TOC on Patreon:
Our bling shop –
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world , The Old World Is Dead: You Have Been Conditioned to Know it Too , #World #Dead #Conditioned
, warhammer
A game is never dead so long as you play it.
However, remember this, if the same people who played it before are the ones left in a years' time, playing the armies they already owned…. does that really count as having legs? Let's see what happens next year, shall we?
Edit: just to reiterate a point made in the video, many of the factions are undercooked, (no characters and removed units by lazy writers) and unavailable. So why would I play this edition when I can play the last edition which had MORE stuff and everyone had full rules? Doesn't that just SCREAM bad for the health of the system?
They are refreshing their trademarks, the ones that they actually have that cover this era.
There was hype in the online Skaven community. It all died when the "Legacies" lists got announced, or as I like to call them, the Token Gesture PDF's.
I have a large collection of Daemons. Can't use them either. Looks like Skarbrand and Kairos Fateweaver are gonna stay on the shelf.
Speaking of Skarbrand, he's in Total Warhammer. Same with Ikit Claw, Malekith and Morathi. Don't even recall if Karl Franz is in there with the Empire.
Huffs massive amounts of copium Heresy 2.0 is not just space marines! 5min later Old world will die because I have to fight the same 2 factions because that's all they really sell.
Oldworld batreps on Tabletop Tactics have the most likes and comments, and it's a 40k streaming service. There's a lot of hype, minis sold out. Niche diehard fans don't really care about the staggered releases. And other competitive rank and file games can't compete with GW. People prefer it just because it's Games Workshop and this edition is much more balanced than 8th, which was just painfully unbalanced. (Banner of the World Dragon, are you kidding me?)
I think you hit the nail on the head mate. I was interested in TOW at one point, then I saw the starter army boxsets being like 99% 20+ year old minis (not a fan of the old sculpts personally). At first I was thinking ok, old sculpts, that's fine, what's the price… and here in AU at least they're charging $490 for TK and $435 for Brets.
Absolutely ridiculous. People can try to justify that price all they want re. "inflation", but at the end of the day, you're paying 2024 prices for 2003 models (or 1993 in the case of some of the TK). Models that were cutting edge back then, but now look horrific imo next to newer models (e.g. absolute dogshit mould lines, flimsy/fragile make etc.).
For $490 bucks mate I can basically start a completely new army in 40k or AoS (see battleforce boxes), with brand new models, and get the respective battletome/codex.
I honestly don't know what GW were thinking with this. The launch boxes killed my hype for the game, and no one in my local scene is buying. Like you said, I only know of a few guys who already had WHFB armies that are going to play, not new guys dipping into TK or Brets.
This sucks because I want TOW to be successful, I think it's a cool game with a good ruleset, but the barrier to entry is just too much for me personally, and I don't fancy rebasing any of my AoS minis for a half-baked legacy pdf army either.
We'll see in a years time. If the local scene is healthy, might be worth getting into, but right now, seems like a FOMO marketing gimmick imo.
I really reslly like Bretonnia, especially the new stuff, but i just don't feel confident buying in.
My two pence is it's a nostalgia trip for the veteran players and for newer players to see what the hype was about.
I'm certainly looking at my stuff and wondering how much I'm going to have left once I've sold everything I don't need/use. I'm also thinking charging 2010's prices for everything. I want to have fun, not suffer.
100% agree.
The people playing in my local area all have pre-existing armies, mostly "legacy" factions – very little new stock purchased.
Our LGS decided that legacy factions would not be allowed in their events and the 20 or so people who wete interested in the game all cancelled their orders through the store and now play at eachother's houses regularly – we even downloaded the rules
YARR HAR FIDDLE TEE DEE
It is so transparent to me. They still sell all the Oger, Skaven and Dark Elves ranges in their respective AoS ranges. They are IN PRODUCTION, but they are so scared of people double-dipping their armies in two systems (despite incompatibly basing bein required) that they would rather have "new old" Factions just for the fomo crowd.
Ever wondered why Heresy only released after basicly all the firstborn-marines were phased out of 40k? Or why they dont sell demons for Heresy? New Russ anyone, because thats what we need, god forbid you use the ones you already have!
Just bite the bullet and admit that you can not sell all unit options. What old Fantasy faction could not be represented by GW models? There are reasonable proxies or converion oportunities in GW´s range to build basicly everything, so it won´t even be a problem for tournaments. It is the price you pay for healthy system and long term customers. I am so tiered of this shit…
I wonder if you played WFB when it was current? I think not, the Old World is being launched in a different way to standard launches. Its a slower burn, i mainly feel that is because stores wouldn't/couldn't commit to buying in to a full system with all the armies supported day one, I also thknk GW couldn't supply that product world wide. Based on your arguments do you consider AOS a dead game? Because most of your arguments could be said about that game and i believe thats popular. I think most of your arguments are about global economics and nothing to do with any individual companies.
GW clearly did not think The Old World through as a product in the existing miniatures landscape. There is a fairly active scene playing either old editions of WHFB or Ninth Age, plus other games like Kings of War and Oathmark. The Warhammer Fantasy brand and identity is strong, but what TOW offering now over those other game systems? The market is not as it was right after the company killed Warhammer Fantasy Battle as other competitors have emerged. There is also the factor of the audience that GW caters to now is not the kind that will make a sustained investment beyond initial hype of building and playing large rank and file armies. The factor of people having much less money is also a major oversight of GW. If the Old World came out with entirely new models at its current price point, that would be logical but they are mainly rereleasing old kits. A better strategy would have been to price the older kits at a discount and then have the new characters or units in line with the standard GW pricing.
I got bankrupted by the wonderful Coof, and almost croaked from it in 2022 (in fact a 2018 illness strongly imitated it? Hmmm).
As a result, i have enough buying power to get food, gas and glue. I wonder how long 40k as a hobby has left? I know, you just reading that are saying its not possible.
Every game eventually dies out, in GW's case, im talking becoming a 'million'dollar company, only. No longer a 500 million giant.
To be honest, that new bone dragon and the new tomb priest looks so garabage. I can't even fathom how with todays technology in sculpting and printing how minis that are 20 years old still looks superior to that crap
my group has 3d printed every army they have for this, only buying the books. I'm doing skaven using mainly prints. This bars us from any GW sponsored event, or events like adepticon which very specifically say that you should have mostly GW models. (based off of their rules for 40k and sigmar)
there's also a rumor that skaven are going to get a sigmar refresh, which im sure won't be compatible with old world, and will all be sculpts that cant fit into ranks
Age of Shitmar Prequel: The Game
Is Cat going to do a video explaining his side?
Was thinking maybe I’d get into the old world as I never fully got into fantasy but, then I saw the prices, me needing multiple books, then, the armies my friend wants to play isn’t supported (Lizardman exactly because of Total War) and my group probably wouldn’t want to or could buy into it, makes me want to play an older edition of Fantasy, and go to recast or 3rd party for the miniatures.
maybe its a good thing if GW looses interest … no power creep, no early / unnecessary re-realease of the rules… just a pretty solid rule set which WH Fantasy fans can get on board with
AoS has gaids… literally terrible world building and faggy models.
I actually really like Legions Imperialis but by god have they fuckhanded that release. Latest article they showed new datacards for the Beta Garmon book and put a link to the old ones on the store… the ones that sold out within an hour of release and aren't being reprinted.
I mean it's almost like you're deliberately trolling at that point.
Mr.circle, can you elate me on how to build a community? I’m not hoping for something big but to go from 6 players to like 12
Definitely interested to see how this does in my area, got tons of interest and ppl showing up right now but who knows in a year
I didn’t spot Malekith in the Dark Elf legends rules. GW are reslly taking the wizz there. If you’re not gonna support their rules, at least give them their special characters.
At this point GW just feels so out of touch that old world could be a legitimate massive success and they would still just sit on their hands and do nothing with it.
The preorders for old world sold like hotcakes with pretty much everything being out of stock everywhere, but what has that translated out to? What seems like it will be a painfully slow release schedule, quarters of armies coming back at a time, legacy armies that might come back years down the line once they are done being filler for AoS armies, and a lot of FOMO made to order shenanigans for basic units.
I personally think old world will be successful, but that it will be massively undercut by whatever the hell this current plan for the system is.
Mantic Goblins are my Old World Army 😀
This game is likely to only survive so long as people are willing to use third party miniatures.
I am currently sorting through. Do Baltimore 3D printed bottles for an orcs End goblins army simply because the older Miniatures are fairly hideous.
To me a factor that negatively impacts the community is shills like Valrak snd others like him… i respect his passion for things he enjoys, and is incredibly passionate about.
But oh my his incessant positive position towards GW and with his fans following suit nothing will change for the better
…for me, this is in a really weird spot personally. I feel the desire to recreate parts of the dwarven Army I collected in the 90s and started this hobby for me (early teens?, played Warhammer fantasy, 2nd ed. 40k onwards to 3.5, Bloodbowl, Battletech and then finally Heresy exploded with Zone Mortalis later on).
I used to run my pocket money (allowance?) to the local gamestores (pre-GW stores creeping up and running the role playing and miniature stores into the ground) and pick up blisters with 3-4 metal miniatures to bulk out the squads…
Anyway, now it would just be reminiscing on childhood memories, modeling and painting up a small fraction of 'back in the day' and relegating it to a spot in a glas cabinet (very unlikely I'd play the game) and that seems like a bad spot to apply funds.
You know what? I am happy for these 'all at once' releases.
a lot easier to 3d print for armies when they are all there, like this one and legion imperialis
Garbage Wreckshop is determined to DESTROY its own franchises.
So far old world has gone pretty well in my group but with the exception of me everyone else only has to buy a book and some round base to square formation Movement trays , the group I was playing sigmar with comprised of warriors of chaos, city’s of sigmar prior to the reboot of the faction, beast men, and lizard men , I already play lion rampant and mordheim so I had most of a bretonnian exile army out of the box but I know well my group is the exception not the norm
This take reminds me of when I was in college and had one friend group who was into the local music scene, and I had another friend outside of all of that who just listened to Top 40 pop music, and once asked, "Why do those local bands even bother, none of them are going to make it."
That's Macca here, he's a top of the charts 40K/30K fan who just wants the latest singles from big record labels. Doesn't see the point of even gaming if that's not what it's all leading to. So the prediction is basically meaningless because it's so far removed from the reality of the gamers who will actually play the game and what the game is meant to be.
Yes GW sucks, they're overpriced, they have stock issues that ruin things for their games sometimes, but no TOW isn't dead on arrival. For anybody who's ever played something besides GW games (like a historical game where the company doesn't hype new releases for it every week, forget new models, they don't even make models!!!), I think TOW will be fine and quite alive for years to come.
I'll still be building an army, And if i can't play it in old world? Ill still play it in 6th or 9th age or others.
I believe that part of The Old World problems depend on conscious decisions by certain sectors within GW. If one compares the information from the first WHC posts about the game, the later contradictory posts and what appears written in the books it is clear that originally the project was much more ambitious and intended to expand the setting instead of recreating just a few factions. The problems began when mainline GW began to get its hands on the territory of the Specialist Games (FW) studio, either because they wanted part of the credit for the return of a setting much loved by fans or because they were afraid that it would overshadow the tasteless modern Warhammer.
I hope that the existing player base that was spread out over multiple editions and fan editions is enough to keep support for the game up. And it does seem like most people have united under the old world, so im hopefull.
I'm a new player, recently started collecting AoS after getting hooked from Total War. I was really excited when they announced the Old World because it was the world I had grown to love. But i'm underwhelmed.. they've changed the setting so I don't know any of the characters and then just released a bunch of old minis. I think they should have started with a new army like Kislev or Cathay with exciting modern units that both new players and returning players would love to collect because they're new. Couple that with the fact that most of the units are out of stock almost all of the time online and it really dissuades me from wanting to start collecting either of these two armies. It's a massive investment to decide to collect a new army in money and time so I won't collect anything from the Old World until I see an army I like and know that they'll keep supporting it… there are lots of factions I would love to collect, but not these two they've chosen.
That's kind of where I am with it, I thought about a Wood Elves army because I always wanted one back in the day but frankly I don't have time between my various Heresy projects and, honestly, I don't see this game having legs long term.
I think in a lot of ways GW was right to kill WHFB off first time and I think, given how no games of this have fired off at any of the game shops I have on Discord, that there probably isn't a market for it any more. Getting people to try Kings of War was downright impossible and KoW didn't even have the cost factor putting people off, I simply don't know many wargamers with the follow through to paint a full rank and flank army. Sure people will buy the launch boxes but will they be playing it in a year? Two years? We get a super active Horus Heresy community at my local shop and sporadic games at others in my area but I've not seen anyone play ToW or even latter WHFB editions in years.
Even with proper marketing I think the game's just a dead duck that GW only released because it was easy to and because they did that thing they do, where they saw another company selling a game that wasn't them and panicked.
For what it's worth though, HH2 was the impetus I needed to finally build my first Heresy army. That and the number of newer players I've seen at my local shop makes me feel that, unless we're a weird exception, GW did something very right with Horus Heresy.
I'll buy a bunch of models to round out my old fantasy armies, but thats about it.
I think that The Olde World is a limited game like Aeronautica. Aeronautica lasted about 5 years with an extra 1-2 year bonus from COVID19 and Geedubs did not release all the 40k faction for the game just 5. The Olde World factions has not been fully supported with many moved to the Legends rubbish heap.
''Walk in, spend your $$ and f*ck off'' has been a long long standing policy of GeeDubs.